London Daily

Focus on the big picture.
Wednesday, Jul 30, 2025

'Part of you is saying "I'm in hell'': Stephen Fry talks to Jonathan Biss

'Part of you is saying "I'm in hell'': Stephen Fry talks to Jonathan Biss

Both the actor and the pianist have suffered from mental health issues in the past. They discuss performing, vulnerability - and why you wouldn’t want to meet Beethoven in heaven

Jonathan Biss: Many of us become musicians in part because we feel out of step with the world. Music makes up for something that is missing. And Beethoven has done that for me. But his personality is so immense, irascible and confrontational that living with him all the time, as much as he made life bearable, he also made life unbearable. And that’s the conflict that eventually tore me to pieces.

Stephen Fry: Perhaps Shakespeare is the closest to Beethoven in greatness and all-consuming emotional range. There are actors who have had breakdowns playing certain characters. Hamlet and King Lear can be incredibly upsetting. There’s a famous film from 1947 with Ronald Colman playing Othello. He murders his wife on stage because the character consumes him. These things make for good stories – and they were told at a time when mental unease was the joke you told about artists. It was part of the artistic temperament, part of their eccentricity.

But now we’re more aware of how dangerous health mental health problems can be. They’re not a joke, but can be frightening and serious. And Beethoven’s music is frightening and serious. I can’t imagine somebody having these issues playing Schubert, profound and wonderful as Schubert is. If you picture the great composers when you die and are in heaven, you’d be pretty sure Schubert would take your hand, put an arm around you and take you off for a drink. Whereas Beethoven would be like Bob Dylan or John Lennon. They’re the rock stars you don’t want to meet because they’d look down their noses at you.

JB: I think piano soloists all feel the pressure to be, if not perfect, at least invulnerable. You’re supposed to come on stage and slay a woolly mammoth and look like it isn’t difficult. We are not supposed to show vulnerability. That’s a terrible burden. Yet the performances that have meant the most to me as a listener are those in which there was some display of vulnerability.


SF: With the performing arts, there are some parts of humanity you can display and other bits that go over the line. When an actor appears on stage playing Uncle Vanya, they can have a false beard, but have their real hair and face. Then that’s Uncle Vanya on stage. But if the director decides Vanya is to take a shower and the actor takes their clothes off, you’re no longer looking at Uncle Vanya’s penis, you’re looking at that actor’s penis. Depiction disappears – because that part of someone’s body is not up for consideration off the stage, as a rule, since we’re all peculiar about that.

There’s an emotional version, too. You can come on stage and show this emotion or that emotion. But if you stab yourself and the blood comes up, people go: “Whoa, that’s going a bit far.” There are limits to the exchange you expect in an artistic experience.

JB: Do feel like you’ve crossed that line before?

SF: I’ve played characters who had a desperate time. Playing Oscar Wilde was a very interesting experience. But actually what affected me more was playing Malvolio in Twelfth Night in London and then on Broadway. Malvolio is rejected and laughed at. “I’ll be revenged on the whole pack of you” – those are his last words. And off he goes on his own. He’s outside the comedy embrace that Shakespeare gives every other character in the play. Everyone except Malvolio is welcomed into a great smiling hug of pleasure. And it gets to you! It’s a strange thing. I mean, you know it’s pretend.

JB: But you’re probably having to access some part of yourself, and that part has to get hurt over and over.

‘I’ve played characters who had a desperate time’ ...Fry with Jude Law in the 1997 film Wilde.


SF: We’re both people who’ve had issues with our mental health and stability of self – and, in my case, mood disorders swinging between mania and depression. Bipolar disorder it’s called. People often ask: is mental ill health, while not necessarily a condition of being able to be creative, helpful? If you were told by a doctor that they had discovered this new amazing gene therapy and that in 10 minutes you could be rid of all your mental health issues, would you say: ‘Yes, please go ahead’? Or would you fear you would be less of an artist without these issues?

JB: I don’t know – I’ve never had the experience of being anyone else! There’s a part of me that recoils from glamorising the artist as someone not quite of this Earth– having special abilities but also being, almost by necessity, irresponsible. I think all people feel deeply and artists come in all personality types. But at the same time, I do think that when you make music, or any kind of art, your whole self is revealed. I feel like the part of me that is anxious is inextricably linked to all the other parts of myself, which probably are essential to my being a musician. It’s not that I wouldn’t want to live without it – I would love to live with less anxiety – but I don’t know that the other parts would remain what they are. It’s a very unsatisfying answer.

SF: It’s unsatisfying because you’re right. One cannot know. I’ve been on stage, or in a television studio, talking while another part of my mind has been saying: “I’m in hell.” You’re dead inside, yet the part of you that won’t allow you not to entertain your audience – timing the joke properly and being cheerful – is alive.

I was on a talk show once and the other guest was Robin Williams. My godson called me up and said: “I really enjoyed you on that. And Robin Williams, isn’t he amazing?” I said: “Yes, he is incredible.” He said: “But he sweats so much.” I said, “Yes, do you know why?” He said: “Was it a condition?” I said: “Yes, a condition of trying so hard.” He may look as if he is just laid back, but he is absolutely trying.

‘Normally I play 80 concerts a year’ … Jonathan Biss on stage at 92Y, in New York.


“Ars celare artem est,” as the Romans said. True art is to conceal art. You are not supposed to show it. When you finish a performance, your heart is going like the clappers. It never leaves you, that hammering nerve thing, and on top of that is the sense of: “Did I fail or did I succeed? Will I fail tomorrow if I succeeded today? If I succeeded today, does that mean I’ll fail tomorrow?” All these stupid things, these voices in your head as you try to sleep at night after a performance, knowing that you have another tomorrow. It is astounding that every artist isn’t certifiable and locked up.

JB: Like so many musicians, from March until September last year, I didn’t get on the stage at all. Then I had two concerts in September, followed by two in November. Normally, I play 80 concerts a year. It was a huge thing that, for all those months, I did not play in front of people. And that time coincided with me trying to finally address these demons. At one of the concerts in November, I was warming up and getting nervous, as I always do. All of a sudden, I realised I didn’t actually have to try to be anything I’m not. And it was the first time I had ever felt that way. It was absolutely revelatory. By the way, I only hung on to it for about three and a half minutes. The urge to be some perfected version of myself dies hard.

SF: Years ago, I was working with one of my comic heroes, John Cleese. He asked: “So what sort of things are you doing at the moment?” I told him I was doing some stage things and that I found them nerve-racking. He said: “You have to remind yourself that the audience haven’t come in, sat down, folded their arms and said, ‘Go on then, entertain me, I don’t believe you can.’ They’ve paid money because they want to see you.” And you think: “Yes, of course. Yes. Why am I thinking that they’re all hostile?” Generally speaking, people have come because they want to. If anything, the audience are perhaps a little more nervous than you.

Your job is actually to tell the audience: “You’re in wonderful hands. You’re going to have a fantastic time. It’s going to be marvellous.” With an actor, that moment starts with the first scene, but there’s that extraordinary thing a pianist does: they sit at the stool, put their hands out ready to play, then there’s that pause. I’ve always thought, ‘What are they doing? Are they clearing their mind or filling it? Are they hearing the music ahead?’ As an actor, you can do the same thing: just let the audience know they’re in for a good time. It’s a way of hypnotising yourself as well.

Newsletter

Related Articles

0:00
0:00
Close
Former Judge Charged After Drunk Driving Crash Kills Comedian in Brazil
Jeff Bezos hasn’t paid a dollar in taxes for decades. He makes billions and pays $0 in taxes, LEGALLY
China Increases Use of Exit Bans Amid Rising U.S. Tensions
IMF Upgrades Global Growth Forecast as Weaker Dollar Supports Outlook
Procter & Gamble to Raise U.S. Prices to Offset One‑Billion‑Dollar Tariff Cost
House Republicans Move to Defund OECD Over Global Tax Dispute
Botswana Seeks Controlling Stake in De Beers as Anglo American Prepares Exit
Trump Administration Proposes Repeal of Obama‑Era Endangerment Finding, Dismantling Regulatory Basis for CO₂ Emissions Limits
France Opens Criminal Investigation into X Over Algorithm Manipulation Allegations
A family has been arrested in the UK for displaying the British flag
Mel Gibson refuses to work with Robert De Niro, saying, "Keep that woke clown away from me."
Trump Steamrolls EU in Landmark Trade Win: US–EU Trade Deal Imposes 15% Tariff on European Imports
ChatGPT CEO Sam Altman says people share personal info with ChatGPT but don’t know chats can be used as court evidence in legal cases.
The British propaganda channel BBC News lies again.
Deputy attorney general's second day of meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell has concluded
Controversial March in Switzerland Features Men Dressed in Nazi Uniforms
Politics is a good business: Barack Obama’s Reported Net Worth Growth, 1990–2025
Thai Civilian Death Toll Rises to 12 in Cambodian Cross-Border Attacks
TSUNAMI: Trump Just Crossed the Rubicon—And There’s No Turning Back
Over 120 Criminal Cases Dismissed in Boston Amid Public Defender Shortage
UN's Top Court Declares Environmental Protection a Legal Obligation Under International Law
"Crazy Thing": OpenAI's Sam Altman Warns Of AI Voice Fraud Crisis In Banking
The Podcaster Who Accidentally Revealed He Earns Over $10 Million a Year
Trump Announces $550 Billion Japanese Investment and New Trade Agreements with Indonesia and the Philippines
US Treasury Secretary Calls for Institutional Review of Federal Reserve Amid AI‑Driven Growth Expectations
UK Government Considers Dropping Demand for Apple Encryption Backdoor
Severe Flooding in South Korea Claims Lives Amid Ongoing Rescue Operations
Japanese Man Discovers Family Connection Through DNA Testing After Decades of Separation
Russia Signals Openness to Ukraine Peace Talks Amid Escalating Drone Warfare
Switzerland Implements Ban on Mammography Screening
Japanese Prime Minister Vows to Stay After Coalition Loses Upper House Majority
Pogacar Extends Dominance with Stage Fifteen Triumph at Tour de France
CEO Resigns Amid Controversy Over Relationship with HR Executive
Man Dies After Being Pulled Into MRI Machine Due to Metal Chain in New York Clinic
NVIDIA Achieves $4 Trillion Valuation Amid AI Demand
US Revokes Visas of Brazilian Corrupted Judges Amid Fake Bolsonaro Investigation
U.S. Congress Approves Rescissions Act Cutting Federal Funding for NPR and PBS
North Korea Restricts Foreign Tourist Access to New Seaside Resort
Brazil's Supreme Court Imposes Radical Restrictions on Former President Bolsonaro
Centrist Criticism of von der Leyen Resurfaces as she Survives EU Confidence Vote
Judge Criticizes DOJ Over Secrecy in Dropping Charges Against Gang Leader
Apple Closes $16.5 Billion Tax Dispute With Ireland
Von der Leyen Faces Setback Over €2 Trillion EU Budget Proposal
UK and Germany Collaborate on Global Military Equipment Sales
Trump Plans Over 10% Tariffs on African and Caribbean Nations
Flying Taxi CEO Reclaims Billionaire Status After Stock Surge
Epstein Files Deepen Republican Party Divide
Zuckerberg Faces $8 Billion Privacy Lawsuit From Meta Shareholders
FIFA Pressured to Rethink World Cup Calendar Due to Climate Change
SpaceX Nears $400 Billion Valuation With New Share Sale
×